PROJECT EMO

Okay so today I sent out the first e-mail of this project and holy moly let me tell you, the response I got was overwhelming. Everyone came out of the woodwork and helped me get this project started. Again, thanks for everyone who participated. What im going to do in this post is put all those e-mails up and then we can continue from there.

Initial E-Mail:
It’s time to begin ladies and gents!

Thanks again for wanting to participate in helping me create a concise analysis of the “Emo” culture and its growth over the past 10 years.

So like I said in the initial email, each week I’ll pose a new question to the group for everyone to respond to if they want to. You do not have to respond to every question but if you want to say something, please do.

Also, when responding, please hit “respond to all” so this can turn into a discussion.

Now on to the question!

So in order to get my professor on the same page as everyone, I need to make him a “mixtape” and instead of throwing a bunch of random “emo” songs on there, id like to take a trip down memory lane.

The question I have for you is this: If you were to make a playlist of 10(ish) songs featuring songs that portrayed an accurate depiction of the scene in a specific year, what would you put on it.

Now I understand some of you may not have listened to music in 1998, so just start off whereever you see fit but if some of you older guys know some, it would help me immensely.

1998:
1999:
2000:
2001:
2002:
2003:
2004:
2005:
2006:
2007:
2008:

Heres to hoping this all goes well, and thanks again for your help!

James

Responses:

Laura S:
1993 Smashing Pumpkins-Siamese Dream
1994 Weezer-Blue Album
2000 The Get Up Kids/Jimmy Eat World
2001 Alkaline Trio
2002 Needs to be something Good Charlotte. <– Things start getting really pop-y around this time and the scene exponentially increases in popularity. Good Charlotte goes from little known, to dorky, to TRL infamy in a very short amount of time
2003 Elliot Smith; He dies, we listen more.

Lisa:
Hmm. Here goes. I agree with Laura about SP in the scene, though I’m not too sure today’s emo kids (our sibling’s generation, for example) really nod toward SP, sadly.

1993: Siamese Dream – SP,
1994/5: Weezer
1994: Sunny Day Real Estate, Diary
2000+ Taking Back Sunday (Tell all Your friends, 2002), Brand New, Dashboard Confessional, All Elliott Smith, especially when he goes into the great unknown — 2003)
2007- Taking Back Sunday, Louder Now
2005+ Death Cab For Cutie (All albums) — and I know most people are on the fence wondering if they’re emo or indie, but here’s to throwing them into the emo category since they have an emo following.

Laura:
Holy Shit, I completely forgot about Sunny Day Real Estate. I second your 94′

James:
Two responses…and no Fall Out Boy reference (yet) 😉

Lisa:
Ehh, they’re so post-emo it hurts to have them on there. If we put them, then we put Panic! (Panic), My Chemical Romance, Gym Class Heroes (kinda), etc… But yeah, you’re right. I guess they deserve a place.

I used to LOVE sunny day!

Ron:
I’m an old man (as Ryan and I were joking early today), so mine may be a bit dated but still valid 🙂 – and I included Sunny Day 🙂 Also I tend to go a bit more hardcore I guess..and I’ve never listened to Fall Out Boy either hehe

here’s a quick mix of 10 songs
1985 – "Give Me Back" – Embrace"
1985 – "Drink Deep" – Rites of Spring
1993 – "Kiss The Bottle" – Jawbreaker
1994 – "In Circles" – Sunny Day Real Estate
1996 – "A Jack With One Eye" – Texas Is The Reason
1996 – "Shorty" – the Get Up Kids
1997 – "Slower" – Mineral
1997 – "November" – Christie Front Drive
1997 – "Midas" Threadbare
1998 – "First Day Back" – Braid

Ben:
Everything I was going to say was pretty much mirrored by Ron Richards. You gotta start at the beginning before you can get to this watered down stuff the kids are calling emo these days.

Ash:
Yeah, I just sent Ron an e-mail in a very similar fashion. 🙂

I’ll try to see if I can come up with some alternatives. (First Day Back over What a Wonderful Puddle?! Really?)

Ben:
Now we’re talking.

I think I would’ve picked What a Wonderful Puddle too, but really almost anything from Frame and Canvas will get the job done.

James:
The "watered down" Emo is what is bringing in the cash money.

What was the fanbase like (gender wise) in the mid-late 80’s? You can say that once 2002-3ish hit, the age range grew immensely.

Tyler:
Are we looking for only emo? Cuz if I go back and remember everything that was on the radio those years, a lot of this got thrown into emo whether it should have been or not. This is, to my memory, what everyone was listening too anyway, and when I was in middle/high school, anything that was on rock radio was lumped into emo music. 😦

1994: Green Day "Dookie", Stone Temple Pilots "Purple", Weezer "Blue"
1996: Beck "Odelay" Jimmy Eat World’s first album
1997/8: Foo Fighters "The Colour and the Shape," Green Day "Nimrod," The Offspring "Ixnay on the Hombre" and "Americana,"
1999: Blink-182 "Enema of the State" Jimmy Eat World "Clarity" Red Hot Chili Peppers "Californication"
2000: Coldplay "Parachutes" Linkin Park "Hybrid Theory"
2001: Blink-182 "Take Off Your Pants and Jacket," Jimmy Eat World "Bleed American," The Strokes "Is This It," Weezer "Green"
2002: Chevelle "Wonder What’s Next" Coldplay "Rush of Blood to the Head" Interpol "Turn on the Bright Lights" 30 Seconds to Mars debut
2003: AFI "Sing the Sorrow" All American Rejects debut, Anberlin "Blueprints for the Black Market", Black Rebel Motorcycle Club "Take THem On, On Your Own", Death Cab for Cutie "Transatlantacism" Hoobastank "The Reason" (shut up, it was huge), Kings of Leon "Youth and Young Manhood" Linkin Park "Meteora" Muse "Absolution" Snow Patrol "Final Straw" The Strokes "Room on Fire"
2004: Chevelle "This Type of Thinking" Green Day "American Idiot" Interpol "Antics" Jimmy Eat World "Futures" Kasabian "Kasabian" The Killers "Hot Fuss" Modest Mouse U2 "How To Dismantle an Atomic Bomb"
2005: Alkaline Trio "Crimson" All American Rejects "Move Along" The Bravery "The Bravery" Coldplay "X&Y" Hard-Fi "Stars of CCTV" Hot Hot Heat "Elevator" Jacks Mannequin "Everything in Transit" Kaiser Chiefs "Employment"
Nine Inch Nails "With Teeth" Weezer "Make Believe"

Ash:
Sigh. I think I’m gonna put on "Killing a Camera" and reminisce about the drive between Austin and Houston now.

Speaking of my college years, there’s Rainer Maria ("Breakfast of Champions," "Feeling Neglected"), Mates of State (album: Our Constant Concern), Hey Mercedes (Braid post-Braid), Elliott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_(band), and One Last Wish (which was from ’86, but the reissue came out when I was going to school!)

Ron:
1998 was really when EMO broke, when it got more melodic (I blame the Get Up Kids) and paved the way for Dashboard Confessional and the rest (and that’s right around when I checked out and went to Brit Pop heh)

The fanbase gender wise in the mid-late 80s was pretty even – you should get this book:

Which talks alot about the scene in DC where Emo was born

And yeah, pretty much anything from Frame and Canvas would have been good

maybe i should do a Long Island Emo mix too – hehe

Ben:
I think the demographic grew in stages, in my mind at least it’s roughly:

-rites of spring-era emotional hardcore to

-sunny day real estate’s "post-emo indie rock"
-which leads into bands like the promise ring, the get up kids etc who really start to bring an aspect of the pop
(these are similar)

and then later into the "emo" the kids are listening to today. those bands i’m a little fuzzier on.
There may actually be two stages in this stage, but like I said, this isn’t one I’m down in. It almost seems like anymore, people call anything dealing with some combination of indie rock and some form of emotion "emo")

Also, did the kids call Weezer emo back in the day? I’m saying no. They didn’t. Weezer dovetails in now and maybe they grabbed that moniker when they came back with the green album? (Which makes a lot of sense, but they weren’t emo at that time, emo as a genre kind of came to them…yeah?)

Laura:
By 2001, the Blue Album by Weezer was grandfathered into emo for sure.

Ron:
Dude! Mates of State! Elliott! Rainer Maria! good calls
Arrgh – 10 songs wasn’t enough – I could probably fill up 100

James:
What were they calling Weezer back in the day? Like was there a tag for the kind of music that looking back, we term "emo"?

Ash:
Weezer was in the post-grunge swath of bands that were MTV’s "buzz" bands. They were part of the wave that replaced 120 minutes-era "alternative."

Ben:
If someone wants to make a tape and upload it someplace I’d certainly spend a few hours diving back into some Rainer Maria/Sunny Day/Braid/etc jams. (Okay, i was listening to Frame and Canvas just yestrday, but the rest…)

Weezer was really another "alt-rock" band when they appeared with the Blue Album in 94. Alt rock was the indie rock of the day.

Ron:
Pinkerton is considered emo in retrospect I guess

but the key thing for me at least, and I may be showing my scene pride or whatever – but i instantly discounted Weezer cause they were on a major label.

For me, Emo bands were the bands you could connect with and go see at a VFW hall and the entire room connected with the band and the emotions of the song – hell people would weep at Rites of Springs shows back in the day.

I know Sunny Day strattles that line, but they were Sub Pop right before they sold out (or around the same time)

I may be reading too much into it, but emo was definitely an underground/indie thing

Ash:
This is actually a really good way to look at it – Diary is the bridge from Rites of Spring to Death Cab for Cutie. Particularly look at Sunny Day’s "comeback" album, How it Feels to be Something On – it’s pretty much a direct antecedent for later Death Cab (particularly the atmospheric approach to Transatlanticism).

Ben:
Right, but that’s not what emo is today, which is why i think it’s important to point out that Weezer, although referred to as "emo" today, never was at the time. Not until way later in their life. Now the music has come around and fits in with what weezer was doing then, but they were never considered emo until well after Pinkerton was released.

Jimmy N:
Here’s my list:

1998: Blink 182 – Dude Ranch
1999: Saves the Day – Through Being Cool
2000: New Found Glory – Nothing Gold Can Stay
2001: Thursday – Full Collapse
2002: Brand New – Your Favorite Weapon
2003: Coheed and Cambria – In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3
2004: My Chemical Romance – Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge
2005: Circa Survive – Juturna
2006: The Format – Dog Problems
2007: Say Anything…Is A Real Boy/Was a Real Boy
2008: Against Me! – New Wave
2009: I predict You, Me and Everyone We Know…the kids are gonna love them.

Ash:
I do not consider Pinkerton emo, the Weezer grandfather clause is bs, and it’s specifically because of the MTV thing (although I guess technically SDRE showed up a time or two).

One of the key elements for me with emo bands is that underdog vibe, and you can’t get that vibe when you’re on the radio & MTV – I think that’s why I have a hard time considering the modern "emo" stuff as actual emo.

Ash:
See, and here’s where I get confused – I just heard Coheed & Cambria I’d say a year or so ago and I don’t understand how that is anything but a metal version of Rush. How does that relate to writing in a diary and feeling isolated

Not trying to be pedantic, either, this is just the point where I don’t get the transition in the term and the music ascribed to it…

/old man

Ron:
Is Against Me! really considered Emo? I just thought they were good old fashioned/sometimes political hardcore?

Jackie:

It seems like I might be one of the babies in the group… so I’m going to start at 2001. I think my choices are more mainstream stuff… things you didn’t have to go searching for, but if you were in the mood- they found you (whether you liked it or not!)

2001: Brand New (Your Favorite Weapon), Weezer

2002+ Taking Back Sunday, Dashboard…. But I think this is where “emo” took a strange turn (from what you have all said) when bands like Good Charlotte and, how could we forget good ol’ Simple Plan arrived on the radio. All of a sudden (at least for me in middle school) you were labeled “emo” if you liked them (guilty!) Some others- My Chemical Romance, Yellowcard (One for the Kids)

2003+ Would you stick Matchbook Romance in this category? AFI, All American Rejects (who eventually went way too poppy), Coheed, Straylight Run could be thrown in here… A Static Lullaby too. Green Day might’ve had the look, but I’m not sure if they are “emo”…and we’ll sprinkle in a little Death Cab for Cutie (not a fan, but it fits)

I don’t think we’ve had any serious “emo” bands emerge onto the radio out of no where since like 05. Also, not a fan of calling Fall Out Boy part of the “emo” category… I agree that bands like Panic would then have to be thrown in. How do we feel about Daphne Loves Derby and Plain White T’s? Could they be the newbees?

Katie:
I just left class and looked at my blackberry and had over 30 emails haha…. I haven’t read through all but I didn’t notice any something corporate in there. And what about koufax or the honorary title? I’m sure more will keep popping into my head.

Jimmy N:
I think I’d like to recant that Against Me! pick actually.

As for Coheed in Cambria, they were definitely tagged by the media with the emo label when In Keeping Secrets came out. I don’t agree with it and neither did Coheed who held the same party line as Thursday did…"we’re a hardcore band" (neither is a hardcore band..post-hardcore maybe, but anyway…) I think they got grouped into emo because their fans were the same ones listening to NFG and the like, not necessarily that they played emo music.

Ash:
Oooh. I just thought of another disconnect, and actually, shit, I think THIS is one of those transition points into modern mainstream "emo."

At the Drive-In.

I remember these dudes playing Austin all the time before they signed to Grand Royal and blew up (and then subsequently blew up), but I never got how they got the "emo" tag, even though it’s how they were described all the time. If anyone can explain ATDI as emo to me, I’d appreciate it, and it’d go a long way towards me understanding how you get from Braid to Coheed & Cambria.

Ryan:
Off the top of my head:

Promise Ring “Nothing Feels Good”
Silent Majority “Life of a Spectator”
Inside “Seven Inches to Wall Drug” (lookit the cover of their first 7”: http://www.produktsound.com/images/thumbs/Inside_Absence_7inch.jpg; also, Muddle’s Ron Richards says, “Muddle 15/16: Here’s a collection of songs from Inside’s previous releases. Inside is a really great band that just needs the right label to help them break out. Emo tinged and rocking in every sense.”)
Rainer Maria “A Better Version of Me”
Sunny Day Real Estate “Diary”

Years….uh….

Ron:
How on earth did you find one of my old reviews?
"Emo tinged"?? who writes like that?
le sigh

And there you have it folks. The first e-mail of the project. Please feel free to comment and continue the discussion. I may post a new question soon. Enjoy and tell all your friends!

This semester I will be conducting research, going to a bunch of shows (always looking for company), reading a bunch of books and listening to Chris Carabba until my ears bleed. Hopefully at the end of it, a paper will be produced and if i’m lucky, published.

The idea behind it is, over the past 10 years the term “emo” has gone from a positive label, to a negative and has now in some ways become a thing of the past yet most big bands today, can trace their roots back to the grand ol time of emo. The most interesting part of all this is the culture that has spawned from it. From fashion, to pop culture, and even all the sub-genres that have grown from it are all super fascinating.

Initally, this was going to be an e-mail chain. Those who were involved saw just how nuts that became and all of a sudden inboxes had 45 emails talking about music. So, thats why we’re going to move to the blog comment format. I have a list of questions that id like to pose to you guys and you’re input would be grand. Im thinking about asking one question a week include the responses in the paper im writing. (think of it as “backmatter” or a reprint of an old comic book in the back of a new issue)

Here’s an example:
Question 1: Where do you think “emo” spawned from”

My theory: It’s punk/hardcore for the romantic.
(Now of course answers would be more in depth. Maybe this is a bad starter question but you get the idea)

Now the group of like 30 or so that got the initial e-mail spans a wide array of people. “Old School” fans, those who were/are in bands, current fans, music snobs, those in street teams, those who started street teams, people working/worked for promoters etc. Essentially, we all have a passion for music and here’s your chance to express that love and hopefully create some fun conversation and meet/make friends.

Also if you know anyone who could potentially be interested in this, please feel free to pass the link along and have them join in on the fun.

Again, thank you for your interest in this project and let’s see what we can make of it.

James